Some Feedback on some Heroes.

[omahunek]

First of all, the new shaman is far too strong. His Totems need to be killed in one hit, not 5 or 6. Secondly, his healing totem shouldn't give mana (He has to be dependent on it at least a little), and it should heal for less.

Also, Magic Elemental and Cone of Cold both Suck at low levels.

Anyone else agree?

[Hashinshin]

I think the problem is the mana back from his totem.

That 1% mana back should be removed and totem costs upped by maybe 20%. He can fight FOREVER now and just slam down totems on CD. not having to worry about mana is cool but the totems are far stronger than their CD is worth.

However, I believe not running out of mana is his THING since he doesn't have a damaging ability, so I SUGGEST this:

Make the healing totem heal 3% per second, up totem costs by ~25%. Make the stun off the stun totem half duraton (or if its that already then 35% duration) on heroes. Redo the stealth totem completely.

[hashinshin]

ok that last post was a little confusing.

My general idea is that he should either be able to:

A. Fight forever.

B. Have strong totems.

I think that fighting forever (lane pushing) is his THING and shouldn't be nerfed. As such, I still think his totems don't cost enough and should cost at least 25% more. On top of that, his healing totem should have only 3% life healed and his bash totem should probably have the bonus damage removed.

Thats my real suggestion. The damage removal from his bash totem would stop him from steamrolling over lanes, the less healing would make him slightly more killable, and I think that'd be enough to make him fair.

btw

NERF

THE

NET

TRINKET.

Side note: The botanist has somehow completely slipped under the radar from un-use. Her ultimate just 1 shots people. It 1 shot me, then my allies, then me again, then we tested it and walking over her stuff 1 shots you.

NOTE2: Actually you know what, I think the shaman is fine. Mortars counter him pretty hardcore.

Note3: That hero that turns mana into damage can get ridiculously overpowered later in the game. Just sit back regenning mana to full then blast a hit that does 3/4 to your entire life bar.

[Burning Rose]

In v0.93b, The healing will go down to 3% (that's already been decided, but thanks for agreeing with me , and the mana regen will be removed. I'm also lowering the bonus damage from Stonefist Totem significantly (At least 70%).

Also, Artillery (Mortar Teams) are getting slightly retooled and somewhat nerfed so that they don't kill everything with a few upgrades or certain heroes. They'll be good with those heroes, but not ridiculous.

Net Trinket is fine. The Cooldown may be increased, but what you have to remember is that every hero can get it, and its fairly limited in use. I have been expirementing with additional trinkets, and perhaps I can get one as a nice counter to it.

@ Botanist: I'm actually surprised on this one. I had thought that while it's fairly strong, I wouldn't change it until I got some feedback on it (Since I want to know what the players think). With this, (especially if others feel the same way), I'll look into changing it some.

Finally, I've been experimenting with ways to limit the Arcanist's scaling with mana items, so hopefully you can see some of that next version. Remember, however, that after she uses Mana Burst (The Nuke), she is completely defenseless.

[perhaps]

I think botanist is fine in being sufficient in power, given the annoying ass slow you to almost stop wards.

The ice chick can actually get to an instant kill point by getting the dimensional trinket or whatever it's called (applies ethereal). Using trinket, then use cone, then use single target, then move on them and use the circular AoE. Though the move I would say needs to be boosted the most is the circular AoE. -_-

The hero that needs to be changed the most is the tree guy. Most specifically the slow move. I think balance is off when it is more powerful than another characters, yet is the same but more. That is I'm talking about the cold chick's single target move, doing more than that in damage, then on top of it all a large slowing status AoE that may as well be consider a hold is applied. Most cases I've seen people pick the tree hero get the net trinket, which results in chain holding, which is ridiculous. But I should be thankful they don't get the ethereal trinket, because that single target move WILL one shot people.

[Burning Rose]

Hmm. Good point, I hadn't thought of it that way. The point of Forest Wrath was never supposed to be about damage, but about slowing people. Also, I think that the Forest Lord will recieve a reduction in regular form attack damage. He's supposed to focus on rooting, and people rarely focus on that from what I've seen. It's just: Stun, slow, smack smack smack.

But the issue wasn't whether or not the Botanist is strong enough. It was whether or not the ult was too Strong.

Oh, and I think the Glacimancer's Frost Nova will be changed to a targetted AE, and given a new name. In fact, you can expect a fun change to Ice Lance, too (Probably not in v0.93b, but in 0.94.)

[hashinshin]

My feedback on the lava guy (sorry about not knowing his name) has only a few key points.

Difficulty in use.
Over reliant on allies.
Even when fully mastered does not have the same power as shaman in pushing lanes.

I realize hes like... the anti shaman I suppose. Using debuffs/buffs into of totems and killing allies rather than keeping them alive. However his ability to target heroes is nothing to null and he can't really help push lanes since his buffs or debuffs rely on lots of people dying. I'm not suggesting that his abilities be retooled a lot... but it would really help. I see him largely as a sub-par shaman who doesn't have the abilities to survive like the shaman dies.

I suggest a complete redo of his healing spell, it just doesn't work out like it should be. Yeah, I'm sure you can do a huge thing where you plant it on somebody, plant the revive, then blow them up... but you just spent 3 casts doing something that the shaman just lays down a totem for. I think you should make a few revisions for the best of this hero who just feels clunky:

-His damage aura should be removed, its unimaginative at best to be honest anyway. In it's place give him a single target net ability (the damage over time + net ability) that at the end of it's duration puts a DoT on the enemy. This would give him at least some anti hero power and wouldn't make him the target of choice in ALL situations.

-Let him target other heroes with his revive ability. This would give him some more group power hes desperately lacking but still keep him rather targetable. However, I think its better if this was replaced too. I know replacing 2 abilities is a big deal so I offered a middle ground first. I don't know WHAT to replace this with but something more "fiery" I feel is in order. He feels more like a healer with flame graphics than somebody made of fire. Consider an over the top (graphics wise) kinda wall of flame ability. The fire guy is missing the fire. Hes got no actual fire spells, debuffs and buffs with a cool little flame logo do not a fire hero make.

-Let his DoT spell be planted on enemies and if they die it spreads further. This would allow him to contribute to lane pushes without nearly canceling out the effect of him helping since hes killing his own men, or having minimul DoT time since in a lane push the enemies die so fast.

-Make the heal no longer spread on death but rather spread every 5 seconds to 2 new targets to a maximum of 20 seconds length. This would allow him to heal like wildfire without having to slaughter his own men to pull it off.

I realize this would destroy the Heal + revive + blow up ally combo... but it really doesn't work that well in practice anyway. Hes a very undesirable hero and I never see anyone choose him, even though I typically love fire heroes I'm turned off by his needlessly complicated and unrewarding playstyle.

BTW, I would rethink the mana on the shaman. Maybe make it 0.5% of your mana but utterly removing it puts him in a bad place since hes the only hero who HAS to spend mana to be useful. The ranged heroes can melee, the melee strong heroes get abilities to replenish mana or don't need it just for lane pushing... the shaman has to be constantly dropping down totems or just whacking people for niche to null damage.

On the botanist: I know its avoidable but your hero often decides its a great idea to path through it, or a net catches you... I'm really turned off by 1 shot kills, its just lame.

On the forest lord: His innate ability is completely counter productive to his play style. Hes a big lumbering melee unit... who doesn't have problems getting into melee cause his speed gets buffed. Before nerfing his damage consider removing the speed buff off that one ability and disallowing him to use the net trinket. It think you're catering to how people are using him instead of sticking to what he should be.

Not to just pile on complaints, I love your map.

[Burning Rose]

Well, the thing about the Forest Lord is that he's not supposed to be a big melee smasher at all. He's supposed to focus on the range, and he's supposed to not be very useful in melee. Not supposed to be squishy, but not very useful. He's supposed to be somewhat of a Kiter. People don't pay attention to his Root most of the time, and they're supposed to. Also, Natural Agility is all about him being able to Kite people and root fantastically. He is not a melee Hero, and I don't want people to play him like one.

I think you may be right about the Lord of Flames missing something, and I might replace Intensity Aura with something else, probably something more direct. Maybe a way of summoning something besides his ultimate, since he is fairly ally reliant. But besides that, he accomplishes his role. Oh, and Phoenician Flames is damn useful when you take into account the damage it deals and his ultimate. I don't expect to let him use it on Heroes.

Sorry if I seem combative, Its just that these are two of my favorite heroes (Lord of Flames in the way he plays, Forest Lord in the way he's supposed to play), and I'm pretty adamant about them.

[perhaps]

Thing about him, his slow makes it so it doesn't make a bit a difference if he see him rooted. With the slow move he can hit you with it, move on top, root, kill target, and still have time left (though target is dead) to unroot and dance on the dead body.

You can say what it should be... However, what it currently is, is a run a muck on an entire team hero.

It wouldn't be near as bad if there was a form of dispel on the map, consumable, trinket, or pretty much every hero gets a dispel move.

[Burning Rose]

Well, I figured out a way to deal with it, and I think you'll like it. You can expect v0.93b to be out Tommorrow.

[perhaps]

    That's bold to say you think I'll like it. If you knew me, you'd know that I've very picky about balance. It's not often that I'll be happy with someone's changes, even my own changes for things I'll be displeased with, and find that I'll do many version changes. In turn I'll boldly say that I'm very balance conscious towards games. Which is the reason I recently took the time to learn JASS, so that I can build my own maps. Though AoS style is the last genre I'll probably find myself doing, this excluding non-competitive genres in which I'll never do.

[Burning Rose]

Well, no need to get combative, but its somewhat moot anyways. The change will be coming later, right now I'm releasing major balance fixes and whatnot.